Great article (though am only halfway through). I have a devil's advocate question. Am aware (so far) of all the issues you have debunked/countered, though I have read stories of social credit being applied in some cases like eligibility for plane tickets etc., but maybe it is misrepresented. However one current issue seems important, namely China trying to find ways around US tariffs by 'origin-laundering' in countries like Vietnam, Thailand, Burma, Mexico and Canada. We are talking tens if not hundreds of billions here, something large-scale and systemic. Tangential to origin-laundering are widespread stories of dumping in order to weaken competitors and gain market share. I personally watched one of the newest steel plants in North America get dismantled and shipped off to China in the early 2000's because they couldn't make it profitable because of Chinese steel dumping. After it was shipped out my small town then (Sydney, Cape Breton Island) went into a depression economy from which I believe it has yet to recover. There are hundreds such stories world wide. It is on the ground of such imbalances - which granted China alone didn't create - that much of her international market share has grown. Therefore, if one considers the issue dispassionately, it seems fair to conclude that the international system needs a reboot; the currency hegemony of Old Money based in the West needs changing, and the way in which trade favours 'developing' nations like China at the expense of 'developed' nations like the US via WTO rules also needs changing.
Second there is the corruption purge instituted by Xi. Either it was a dictatorial overreach as some critics attest or it wasn't; if it wasn't, then there was mucho corruption in the elite classes in China under the CPC system. So either Xi's purge was corrupt or there was endemic corruption to purge; either way, there is a considerable corruption quotient. There is nothing overly 'bad' about this in that corruption arises in every society known to man; so my question is the degree to which it is being well worked with. I would give the West, for example, a D on corruption (if not outright F); what grade would you give China? I get the feeling that propagandists on both sides fail to tackle the issue honestly with most Sinophiles portraying China as being essentially without fault; this is literally not believable.
Thanks for that. Nearly a thousand views and nobody else noticed. I should have done it in my head and not relied on a calculator. I’ll fix it later. As for corruption, well like much else there I am reporting personal experience and having been in business for nearly twenty years here I have never experienced it. Not like in the Philippines. So I am inclined to think the situation is a bit better than that survey suggests.
My concern about the corruption - which you wrote about some further down: it's mainly about public discourse both in China I guess (though it's not my business) and the Anglo-Global space. The mind tends to want to take sides. This starts with elementary cognition. A tree is distinguished from everything else which is not a tree. Concept is division just as individuated existence gives the illusion of separateness, independence, even permanence, all of which are illusions.
With national narratives, most people tend to get into adversarial polemics which end up projecting mainly or only goodness on one side and mainly or only badness on an opposing side. If you are familiar with Chinese medical theory you know about the two main energy dynamics in the 5 Element formulation, namely supportive (Mother-Child) and controlling (Husband-Wife). Without support nothing grows but without restriction or limits nothing thrives either, just as life without discipline becomes dissolute.
In terms of the current world system trade imbalances, especially between America and China, not only do the problems need to be clearly discerned (like medical diagnosis) but then mutually beneficial arrangements negotiated similar to how Russia and China have deliberately fashioned a mutually dependent-cum-symbiotic alliance deliberately allowing each to have both supportive and restraining influence over the other creating an overall healthy dynamic. America's elites gave away their manufacturing base to an extreme degree; they don't make their own aspirin or computer chips and much much more. It's incorrect. China is supplying too much of the world's everything for her own and the rest of the world's good.
They and we need to get past hagiographic or demonizing rhetorical drama to see the situation clear-eyed and then make necessary changes, some of which will hurt millions for a while but will overall prove beneficial to both peoples. Actually, I suspect this is already going on back channel but both sides use the surface narrative conflict to paint the Other as demons so their people don't blame their own elites and instead project hostility onto Evil Leaders like Xi or Trump etc.
As someone who is a China sympathiser from afar, some things continue to puuzzle me, and one is the use of the phrase "social credit." For a while, it became my belief that it's fiction by and large, and also a limited experiment. But then, you read Godfree Roberts' "Why China Leads the World" (2020) which has a whole section on the Social Credit as real and planed to expand. Now, you describe it clearly that the plans have changed. But, the new guideline published by the General Office of the Communist Party of China Central Committee and the General Office of the State Council on improving the social credit system is published in the People's Daily’s edition on Tuesday, April 01, 2025 says, quote:
... "Third, accelerate the credit construction of social organizations." .... "Fourth, promote the orderly construction of natural person credit. Establish and improve natural person credit records in accordance with laws and regulations. Accelerate the construction of credit management systems for key professional groups, including practitioners in the fields of law, finance, accounting, auditing, medical care, education, housekeeping, engineering construction, ecological environment, platform economy, and those who have obtained national professional qualifications." etc. etc.
Fascinating stuff. As a retired Brit living full-time now in rural France I have already chosen to move away from the UK as it sinks into decline and social disintegration of which it’s disgraceful and dishonorable involvement in the horrors of Palestine are emblematic. France is better but China exerts an appeal I find irresistible. As I start my Mandarin learning here I wonder how I might best start my ‘China adventure’. Do you have any suggestions?
The only ways to settle here are to have a job or marry a local.
The next best thing would be to move to Hong Kong. You can get a six month visa on arrival with a British passport and then just take a day trip to Macau to renew. You can get short term tourist visas from time time to time to pop over to Shekou and join the fun. Let me know when you are coming over!
A commenter on MoA replied to say that China does not claim sea to the nine dash line which was stated in the graphic I reproduced:
"Walt, China has not made a claim regarding a nine-dash line. The drawing dating from ROC days is sometimes published by China, without any claim, and many times by China critics, but it has no standing in international law. It's basically US propaganda frequently used by China critics when actually they are just inventing claims when really it's just the US and friends pulling the dragon's tail."
The graphic, reproduced from Wikipedia, is therefore evidently highly inaccurate. As I understand it, China’s claims are to above water features within the nine dash line and not all the water. Here is a tract from the South China Morning Post.
"The conventional wisdom is that Beijing “claims almost the entire South China Sea” but this oversimplifies its position and, while it might not be entirely inaccurate, risks being interpreted as a claim over the whole area within the line as its territorial waters. In fact, Beijing’s position is more nuanced and starts with its “indisputable” sovereignty over islands, reefs, shoals and cays in the Pratas, Paracel, Spratly and Zhongsha islands, which it says is based on history. Under Chinese law, only the waters within 12 nautical miles seaward of the baselines of these maritime features are regarded as part of China’s territorial sea and Beijing accordingly claims the contiguous zone, exclusive economic zone, and continental shelf."
China’s actual claims, according to Deepseek are:
"Paracel Islands (Xisha Qundao) – Controlled by China but also claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan.
Spratly Islands (Nansha Qundao) – Claimed in whole by China (and Taiwan), but parts are also claimed and occupied by Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei.
Pratas Islands (Dongsha Qundao) – Administered by Taiwan (Republic of China) but claimed by the People's Republic of China.
Macclesfield Bank (Zhongsha Qundao) – A submerged atoll claimed by China and Taiwan, with no land above water. The Philippines also contests part of it (Scarborough Shoal).
Scarborough Shoal (Huangyan Dao) – Controlled by China but claimed by the Philippines and Taiwan.
China's claims are based on historical records, though they are disputed by neighboring countries and have been a source of regional tension. The Nine-Dash Line (now often referred to as the Ten-Dash Line in newer Chinese maps) represents Beijing's expansive maritime claims in the South China Sea, though this was partially invalidated by a 2016 ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague, which China rejected."
My point was merely to show that the situation in the South China Sea is far more complex than is reported, so I will just leave it at that.
As I'll be heading off to China later in the year, I have really enjoyed this article as it gives me a little more confidence in my decision to relocate there.
I will not be missing the UK at all. This place is falling apart and it's civilised facade is swiftly rotting away to reveal the horrific reality it's been hiding for generations.
I've also left for good, with the same sentiments and general relief. It took several years to extricate myself from all my financial ties to the UK, and every day I am grateful that I am not going through that process now, when it would probably be so much harder. The thought of ever going back makes me shudder.
You might want to correct the numbers or total or something:
"UK Tesco supermarket online: milk 2L $2; butter $2.6; bread $2; rice $16; oil $12; prime beef $10; pork $10; orange $7; cabbage $3.3.
TOTAL: $127.9"
2 + 2.6 + 2 + 16 + 12 + 10 + 10 + 7 + 3.3 = $74.9 not $127.9, no?
========================================================
Great article (though am only halfway through). I have a devil's advocate question. Am aware (so far) of all the issues you have debunked/countered, though I have read stories of social credit being applied in some cases like eligibility for plane tickets etc., but maybe it is misrepresented. However one current issue seems important, namely China trying to find ways around US tariffs by 'origin-laundering' in countries like Vietnam, Thailand, Burma, Mexico and Canada. We are talking tens if not hundreds of billions here, something large-scale and systemic. Tangential to origin-laundering are widespread stories of dumping in order to weaken competitors and gain market share. I personally watched one of the newest steel plants in North America get dismantled and shipped off to China in the early 2000's because they couldn't make it profitable because of Chinese steel dumping. After it was shipped out my small town then (Sydney, Cape Breton Island) went into a depression economy from which I believe it has yet to recover. There are hundreds such stories world wide. It is on the ground of such imbalances - which granted China alone didn't create - that much of her international market share has grown. Therefore, if one considers the issue dispassionately, it seems fair to conclude that the international system needs a reboot; the currency hegemony of Old Money based in the West needs changing, and the way in which trade favours 'developing' nations like China at the expense of 'developed' nations like the US via WTO rules also needs changing.
Second there is the corruption purge instituted by Xi. Either it was a dictatorial overreach as some critics attest or it wasn't; if it wasn't, then there was mucho corruption in the elite classes in China under the CPC system. So either Xi's purge was corrupt or there was endemic corruption to purge; either way, there is a considerable corruption quotient. There is nothing overly 'bad' about this in that corruption arises in every society known to man; so my question is the degree to which it is being well worked with. I would give the West, for example, a D on corruption (if not outright F); what grade would you give China? I get the feeling that propagandists on both sides fail to tackle the issue honestly with most Sinophiles portraying China as being essentially without fault; this is literally not believable.
Thanks for that. Nearly a thousand views and nobody else noticed. I should have done it in my head and not relied on a calculator. I’ll fix it later. As for corruption, well like much else there I am reporting personal experience and having been in business for nearly twenty years here I have never experienced it. Not like in the Philippines. So I am inclined to think the situation is a bit better than that survey suggests.
64.9! Third time lucky!
Ah yes! That's what I had but I mis-typed!
My concern about the corruption - which you wrote about some further down: it's mainly about public discourse both in China I guess (though it's not my business) and the Anglo-Global space. The mind tends to want to take sides. This starts with elementary cognition. A tree is distinguished from everything else which is not a tree. Concept is division just as individuated existence gives the illusion of separateness, independence, even permanence, all of which are illusions.
With national narratives, most people tend to get into adversarial polemics which end up projecting mainly or only goodness on one side and mainly or only badness on an opposing side. If you are familiar with Chinese medical theory you know about the two main energy dynamics in the 5 Element formulation, namely supportive (Mother-Child) and controlling (Husband-Wife). Without support nothing grows but without restriction or limits nothing thrives either, just as life without discipline becomes dissolute.
In terms of the current world system trade imbalances, especially between America and China, not only do the problems need to be clearly discerned (like medical diagnosis) but then mutually beneficial arrangements negotiated similar to how Russia and China have deliberately fashioned a mutually dependent-cum-symbiotic alliance deliberately allowing each to have both supportive and restraining influence over the other creating an overall healthy dynamic. America's elites gave away their manufacturing base to an extreme degree; they don't make their own aspirin or computer chips and much much more. It's incorrect. China is supplying too much of the world's everything for her own and the rest of the world's good.
They and we need to get past hagiographic or demonizing rhetorical drama to see the situation clear-eyed and then make necessary changes, some of which will hurt millions for a while but will overall prove beneficial to both peoples. Actually, I suspect this is already going on back channel but both sides use the surface narrative conflict to paint the Other as demons so their people don't blame their own elites and instead project hostility onto Evil Leaders like Xi or Trump etc.
As someone who is a China sympathiser from afar, some things continue to puuzzle me, and one is the use of the phrase "social credit." For a while, it became my belief that it's fiction by and large, and also a limited experiment. But then, you read Godfree Roberts' "Why China Leads the World" (2020) which has a whole section on the Social Credit as real and planed to expand. Now, you describe it clearly that the plans have changed. But, the new guideline published by the General Office of the Communist Party of China Central Committee and the General Office of the State Council on improving the social credit system is published in the People's Daily’s edition on Tuesday, April 01, 2025 says, quote:
... "Third, accelerate the credit construction of social organizations." .... "Fourth, promote the orderly construction of natural person credit. Establish and improve natural person credit records in accordance with laws and regulations. Accelerate the construction of credit management systems for key professional groups, including practitioners in the fields of law, finance, accounting, auditing, medical care, education, housekeeping, engineering construction, ecological environment, platform economy, and those who have obtained national professional qualifications." etc. etc.
So, my view on this has become quite blurry.
Source of the quotes: https://trackingpeoplesdaily.substack.com/p/politburo-meeting-new-guideline-on
Cheers, Walt, you do a good job.
Thanks for bringing that up. I don't know.
It looks like it might still be creditworthiness? Perhaps there is a translation issue.
Will have to follow developments.
Fascinating stuff. As a retired Brit living full-time now in rural France I have already chosen to move away from the UK as it sinks into decline and social disintegration of which it’s disgraceful and dishonorable involvement in the horrors of Palestine are emblematic. France is better but China exerts an appeal I find irresistible. As I start my Mandarin learning here I wonder how I might best start my ‘China adventure’. Do you have any suggestions?
Good plan.
The only ways to settle here are to have a job or marry a local.
The next best thing would be to move to Hong Kong. You can get a six month visa on arrival with a British passport and then just take a day trip to Macau to renew. You can get short term tourist visas from time time to time to pop over to Shekou and join the fun. Let me know when you are coming over!
https://waltking.substack.com/p/getting-out
Cantonese is more useful in Hong Kong.
Thanks for the advice Walt.
I’ll be in touch again once I’ve got some kind of plan.
Forgot to give you this one.
https://waltking.substack.com/p/in-the-twilight-of-great-britain
Fantastic article, thank you!
A commenter on MoA replied to say that China does not claim sea to the nine dash line which was stated in the graphic I reproduced:
"Walt, China has not made a claim regarding a nine-dash line. The drawing dating from ROC days is sometimes published by China, without any claim, and many times by China critics, but it has no standing in international law. It's basically US propaganda frequently used by China critics when actually they are just inventing claims when really it's just the US and friends pulling the dragon's tail."
The graphic, reproduced from Wikipedia, is therefore evidently highly inaccurate. As I understand it, China’s claims are to above water features within the nine dash line and not all the water. Here is a tract from the South China Morning Post.
"The conventional wisdom is that Beijing “claims almost the entire South China Sea” but this oversimplifies its position and, while it might not be entirely inaccurate, risks being interpreted as a claim over the whole area within the line as its territorial waters. In fact, Beijing’s position is more nuanced and starts with its “indisputable” sovereignty over islands, reefs, shoals and cays in the Pratas, Paracel, Spratly and Zhongsha islands, which it says is based on history. Under Chinese law, only the waters within 12 nautical miles seaward of the baselines of these maritime features are regarded as part of China’s territorial sea and Beijing accordingly claims the contiguous zone, exclusive economic zone, and continental shelf."
China’s actual claims, according to Deepseek are:
"Paracel Islands (Xisha Qundao) – Controlled by China but also claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan.
Spratly Islands (Nansha Qundao) – Claimed in whole by China (and Taiwan), but parts are also claimed and occupied by Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei.
Pratas Islands (Dongsha Qundao) – Administered by Taiwan (Republic of China) but claimed by the People's Republic of China.
Macclesfield Bank (Zhongsha Qundao) – A submerged atoll claimed by China and Taiwan, with no land above water. The Philippines also contests part of it (Scarborough Shoal).
Scarborough Shoal (Huangyan Dao) – Controlled by China but claimed by the Philippines and Taiwan.
China's claims are based on historical records, though they are disputed by neighboring countries and have been a source of regional tension. The Nine-Dash Line (now often referred to as the Ten-Dash Line in newer Chinese maps) represents Beijing's expansive maritime claims in the South China Sea, though this was partially invalidated by a 2016 ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague, which China rejected."
My point was merely to show that the situation in the South China Sea is far more complex than is reported, so I will just leave it at that.
As I'll be heading off to China later in the year, I have really enjoyed this article as it gives me a little more confidence in my decision to relocate there.
I will not be missing the UK at all. This place is falling apart and it's civilised facade is swiftly rotting away to reveal the horrific reality it's been hiding for generations.
Agreed. Check out my earlier article , “In the twilight of Great Britain “. Where are you settling?
I've also left for good, with the same sentiments and general relief. It took several years to extricate myself from all my financial ties to the UK, and every day I am grateful that I am not going through that process now, when it would probably be so much harder. The thought of ever going back makes me shudder.
"The thought of ever going back makes me shudder."
Me too. Where are you based?
Rather not say here, but if there is a way to tell you privately, I will!
I think the chat is private? I get some comments there.
An excellent, informative, considered and most enjoyable essay which should give pause to anyone accepting the western narrative.
Many thanks!
Thanks.
Thanks for sharing this - it was a real eye opener for me.
Thanks - that's what I was hoping to hear!
Well detailed information about the current state of situation in China. Thanks, so detailed and informative from a insiders point of view.